I like this thread. It proves to me that Hikki's fans are thoughtful and intelligent people. Anyone who has thought about what faith means to them (or doesn't mean to them, as the case may be) knows that the journey is never an easy one. I'm glad that we're having these discussions even if some of you feel that this isn't the proper website for it. What we all have in common is a love of a musician - Utada Hikaru - but each of us has more to our individual lives than just that. I feel like I'm getting to know people more as the well-read and grounded people they are.

I'll also go with the sentiment that if you don't like this thread then don't read it. You have a "back" button on your browser, y'know?

Religion is a used to manipulate others. The pope used religion to manipulate people a long time ago.

Some churches are bad, some are good. I think we should focus on what the religion is about rather than what people do under the name of that religion.

So saying that Christianity is "by far the most selfish belief system ever," is a closed minded view on seeing things.

You're only lookin at what people who claim to be Christian and immediately associate that with the actual religion. Forget what people do and make your own opinions on what the religion is about instead.

In response to Amaterasu:

When you say, "Logic dicates this..." your so-called logic is lacking. First of all, all your questions that you are asking are limited to only our realm of thinking. Humans are limited the laws of physics. God presents himself in many places of science as a way for us to understand him. The only problem is that most people miss the signs.

"Religion is neccessary in less evolved times"
If religion was necessary in less evolved times, then why did Einstein believe in a superior being?

You're applying questions that are limited by the laws of physics on a metaphysical being that created the laws of physics. Even if you don't believe in a God, you at least understand the concept of God. From there, you have to apply higher thinking when asking questions or else your questions become logical but not sound. You cannot ask such questions because then all your questions will give you the obvious answer.

For example, "If God was so powerful, could he create something more powerful than he?" Infinite = Infinite +1 so in our realm of thinking, no God can't. Thus, there is no God since God does not have the ability create something more powerful than him. Yet, God is the creator of the infinite. He is above the laws of physics. So you cannot ask a question within the laws of physics on something that is above the laws of physics. That is why you have to choose your questions wisely when it comes to something metaphysical.

Einstein and other scientists confirmed that the Universe has a beginning. If so, then what was there before the beginning? How did it get there? You could ask the same for the Big Bang Theory. Who put that point of energy there? Only one answer, God. Time doesn't exist to him because time is relative. If nothing existed then time couldn't have existed right? There's no such thing as negative Time. But our minds are so incapable of comprehending that that it's hard to fully grasp that idea. That's what i mean when I say that our minds are limited by the laws of physics.

You need to think higher Amaterasu. Your logic can only go so far. It's people that skew the idea of faith and religion. Don't focus on them.

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"Religion is neccessary in less evolved times"
If religion was necessary in less evolved times, then why did Einstein believe in a superior being?

I don't see that as a a depiction of religion despite you elaboration.The belief of a superior being is innately is your religion you believe?

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That is really up to you to believe. Logic and reasoning has served us in modern science so far with methods tried, tested and true. The advancement of science has opened up thoughts, philosophical and metaphysical subjects far deeper and richer than religion can. It takes years of study and much money in recognized institutions just to learn the intricacies of biological cells and sub-cellular organics. Research never stops and we never stop learning - such goes for things in all aspects of scientific learning. Science is no less rich or limited than faith.

As for 'signs' that is up to personal interpretation. You can see pillar of light through clouds as a sign from God and I will see them as pillars of light peeking through the overcast sky.

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I honestly do not see how logic is unsound. Do you mean to imply that irrational thinking is somehow better, or sounder?

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The simple statement that 'God is beyond our thinking' is very limiting and that is how you have chosen to approach your faith. Did you know that at the beginning of the century that people were afraid of peeking into the Atom for fear of offending God? The same goes for the cell. Like it or not, the universe is bound by physical laws.

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You should do more reading. Quantum physics has discovered that even God is not above it - the very presense of the observer changes the behaviour of a sub-atomic particle. As the only way to judge the distance/velocity of something is to alter its course, speed or direction. The only time that God had relevance is in the minute time before the advent of the Big Bang. One is to assume that he drafted all natural laws of this universe. After that, he either left creation as it was and can only observe - as defined by physics today.

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"What is before the universe" is like asking "What is North of the North Pole?" there is no answer to that, not because it is beyond our measely thinking but because there is no answer. There is no frame of reference for 'before' because the universe IS, and existence IS NOT without the universe. Such that your claim that time does not 'exist to him' because time is relative makes no sense - he, as an observer and a participant in TIME makes time. HIS existence creates time. His time and my time may be different, but TIME is tied with BEING and EXISTING. Such that your words are refuted cleanly. Simple and Clean.

Einstein was wrong about two things in his life. One was that there was that the universe was static and thus he applied the Cosmological Constant into galaxies and grativational equations to make it so. He later called this the Biggest Mistake of My Life. The second was his refusal to believe in the new trend of physics into the modern era: Quantum Physics. It is a very famous quote now, "God does not play dice." But in fact, God does play dice! The universe is absolutely random under the surface! It is wholly fascinating. Einstein was wrong about many things, and while a genius, he was humble enough to admit his mistake. I wish that more people were like him. I'm a big fan of his.

I won't argue whether God put that point of energy into the Big Bang or not - but we know what happened after the Big Bang and there are mathematical models and actual real-world (in this case, real-universe) proof to back that up. The existence or NON-existence of God is not for me to argue as I said earlier, you cannot prove/disprove such a notion.

Logic dictates that I do not believe in God without solid evidence or cause to do so. This is where the realm of FAITH comes in - a realm that you choose to partake in and I do not.

I strongly encourage people to read deeper into modern physics though. Mathematically, it is beyond most of us here, but the theories behind them are truly fascinating. I highly recommend the books A BRIEF HISTORY OF TIME and THE UNIVERSE IN A NUTSHELL by Professor Steven Hawking. Humorous, digestable and fascinating knowledge about the nature of well, everything.